tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post4098521430113975779..comments2024-03-29T03:55:28.210-07:00Comments on ZZ's blog: Liberal Remorse: The Nation Forumzoltan zigedyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09376602245528691381noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-23175976242984301002011-03-09T20:51:08.806-08:002011-03-09T20:51:08.806-08:00[color=#cc3300]
It's effortless. Create a crap...[color=#cc3300]<br />It's effortless. Create a crappy product or service and get in touch with every 'sap' who has an decide-in checklist of 40,000 subscribers or a site that gets a couple of hundred hits a day time. Then ask them all to promote your stuff. Operates like a charm[url=http://smsmarketing694.wetpaint.com/]?[/url]<br /><br />If you've ever been on the other conclude of the inbox, you know how frustrating this can be.<br /><br />For case in point, I not long ago obtained a similar e mail from an individual asking me to promote an Multilevel marketing item to my prospects and customers[url=http://fletcher53wolfe.insanejournal.com/445.html].[/url]<br /><br />[/color]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-15207929439065868672010-09-05T18:02:20.653-07:002010-09-05T18:02:20.653-07:00A big thanks to David for his insightful and impas...A big thanks to David for his insightful and impassioned comments on my blog entry. I received other comments not intended for posting that demonstrate a shared frustration over where we are and where we're going. <br /><br />My point in posting my thoughts was not so much to present a program of action - there are many good one's from many different left perspectives - but to attack an obstacle to going forward. And that obstacle is an irrational, misplaced trust that corporately sponsored political leaders will press a people's program without a demanding, agitating, and, yes, often hostile movement. That has been the lesson at least since the New Deal.<br /><br />A large, growing, and popular anti-war movement harassed the Bush administration and influenced the 2010 election. That movement was demobilized after the election in deference to the "anti-war" candidate. So the wars continue and even escalate.<br /><br />Health care reform was on the agenda. For many of us, the answer was "medicare for all", but we knew that without a movement the Administration and the Congress would deliver a variant of the "Massachusetts plan". We fought the good fight, but too many peeled off and drank the elixir of "we've got to accept what we can get". And so we got the corporate solution - a variant of the Massachusetts plan".<br /><br />Future fight? The December recommendations of Obama's Commission on Reform and Fiscal Responsibility will attempt to eviscerate entitlement programs to address the phony deficit issue. There is no better time than in the election run up to extract pledges from candidates that they will not vote for any cuts. But we can't be afraid to ruffle feathers. We can't be afraid to threaten to hold out our vote from those who will argue that we should place our trust in their good will. That doesn't work. <br /><br />In short, we need to demand and not ask our elected officials to act. It's not a shortage of good ideas that hold back change, but the will to challenge corporate power. Only the people can provide that...zoltan zigedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09376602245528691381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-77706502724994018962010-09-03T21:11:45.048-07:002010-09-03T21:11:45.048-07:00I share the frustrations and the analysis of ZZ...I share the frustrations and the analysis of ZZ's blog. However, I don't find any plan of action from him, either, as he awaits more from Barbara Ehrenreich.<br /><br />We don't have the New Deal luminaries, we have Summers and Geithner. Who will emerge as the advisors and leaders that make an Obama Team, not wider Obama shoulders?<br /><br />The comment regarding ending the Afghan war is the first and most practical step toward real change. How can we address the economy and redistribution of wealth while we continue to borrow from China to wage war in SE Asia - oh, I mean Afghanistan? Imagine the change possible if we were to redirect our resources from that war to the flood disaster in Pakistan and radically alter the perception and reality of the US presence in the region.<br /><br />Democracy did work - a Rovian Permanent GOP majority was short-lived as the impossible-to-think-of happened in the election of Obama. But as ZZ points out, it has been co-opted once again by the Permanent Capitalist Hegemony that really rules the US.<br /><br />The co-opted media have made mince-meat of a progressive democratic/socialist agenda with the likes of Fox News (sic) and Glenn Beck. There were the Father Coughlins and Joe McCarthy's of the New Deal era and aftermath. <br /><br />Perhaps Obama is abiding in the present moment, aware that these forces cannot be countered with continuous campaigning or bombast, but by letting them play out, burn out, implode, clearing the air for greater vision than mere hope. <br /><br />In the meantime, I ask him to do everything in executive and legislative power to address the needs of the unemployed, the foreclosed and ever-present poor among us.David Biviano, Mill Creek, WAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-37847121753071409362010-09-01T17:59:17.619-07:002010-09-01T17:59:17.619-07:00Randolph,
Radical? Reformist? Revolutionary? Call...Randolph,<br /><br />Radical? Reformist? Revolutionary? Call solutions what you like. I advocate here a sampling of actions that would move many honest liberals from their politically naive disillusionment and confusion produced by an entirely unrealistic understanding of the 2010 election. Disillusions flow from illusions. I would hope that disillusionment and despair might be replaced with a new understanding of the possibilities and urgent necessity of solutions backed by action worthy of the dire realities of unemployment, foreclosures, impoverishment, etc. <br />All indications are that those solutions will not come from the November elections. Will that spur further disillusionment?<br /><br />The contrast between the collection of Nation commentators - excepting Barbara Ehrenreich - and their New Deal counterparts seems to me stark.<br /><br />A good example of a radical solution in today's context would be to end US aggression in Afghanistan now. If you're satisfied with the solutions offered so far by our political elites, then the argument is with you as well. If you're not, then we have no disagreement.zoltan zigedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09376602245528691381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-31832845414855200662010-08-30T23:04:58.717-07:002010-08-30T23:04:58.717-07:00Zoltan, thanks for this article and your other wri...Zoltan, thanks for this article and your other writing. I have just forwarded this piece to a large list of "liberals", "progressives" and a few "radicals" here in the Spokane backwater in eastern Washington state. Your article includes prior comments you made about the fate we faced with Obama. This is what I wrote at Truthout on 8/19/08, well before the election. The comment is too long so here is the link to it. <br />http://www.truth-out.org/article/progressives-and-obama-a-clash-narratives#comment-11988 <br /><br />Keep up the great work.<br /><br />David Brookbank <br />"Hasta donde debemos practicar las verdades?"Arroyoriberahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00955940337928790469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-66264603522447746052010-08-30T23:03:43.975-07:002010-08-30T23:03:43.975-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Arroyoriberahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00955940337928790469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-28887005678260582642010-08-30T23:01:41.874-07:002010-08-30T23:01:41.874-07:00Zoltan, thanks for this article and your other wri...Zoltan, thanks for this article and your other writing. I have just forwarded this piece to a large list of "liberals", "progressives" and a few "radicals" here in the Spokane backwater in eastern Washington state. Your article includes prior comments you made about the fate we faced with Obama. This is what I wrote at Truthout on 8/19/08, well before the election: <br /><br />Tue, 08/19/2008 - 05:20 — David Brookbank (not verified)<br />1) I will not vote for a representative of the two party ruling class consensus. If Obama is elected, tens of millions of naive Democrats will fall back to sleep as they did under the imperialist, conservative Clinton. They will take refuge in the illusion that "the nation's great national nightmare" is over and relax believing that the promised land of solutions to war, health care, social security, corporate corruption, a mythical land of peace and justice and the American way is only a couple years of hard Democratic work away. That is a pipe dream. 2) Under Bush, much severe damage has been done here at home and abroad. I don't need to enumerate the list here. But remember this, the U.S. populace is largely a non-player except in its role of confused electoral legitimizers of the global brute military power wielded by the US two party ruling class consensus regardless of which faction is in power. It is the people of the rest of the world who are every day less confused, from the millions marching in Europe (albeit unsuccessfully) against US war in Iraq and Afghanistan to the peoples of Latin America one after another successfully electing governments of the left, most overtly opposed to US imperialism. 3) I will not be shamed, brow-beaten, guilt-tripped or rhetorically manipulated into casting my vote before ruling class swine. I will once again vote for the alternative candidate of my choice. I invite each of you to do the same and bring as many others with you. The electoral field is not THE battlefield but it is a battlefield. Fight upon that battlefield and win on it. If not this year and if not in 2012 and if not in 2016 and if not in .... Don't give your vote to those who will then use the "legitimacy" of the system you voted for to carry out further dismantling of the social net at home and further imperial adventures abroad. 4) May courageous people around the world continue to show the people of the United States how to fight ruthless powers, how to act with courage in the face of illegitimate governance, and how to establish solidarity with other peoples. May they help us understand that nothing is obtained from the powerful and ruling class that is not obtained through hard work, sacrifice, and clarity. 5) Which every ruling class representative -- McCain or Obama -- is elected, get ready to continue fighting the system and the dead weight millions who still believe, in their never ending lack of analysis and lack of courage, that this system presents the hope of real change for the people of this country or the world. It does not.Arroyoriberahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00955940337928790469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-78130168388808453112010-08-30T23:01:33.890-07:002010-08-30T23:01:33.890-07:00Zoltan, thanks for this article and your other wri...Zoltan, thanks for this article and your other writing. I have just forwarded this piece to a large list of "liberals", "progressives" and a few "radicals" here in the Spokane backwater in eastern Washington state. Your article includes prior comments you made about the fate we faced with Obama. This is what I wrote at Truthout on 8/19/08, well before the election: <br /><br />Tue, 08/19/2008 - 05:20 — David Brookbank (not verified)<br />1) I will not vote for a representative of the two party ruling class consensus. If Obama is elected, tens of millions of naive Democrats will fall back to sleep as they did under the imperialist, conservative Clinton. They will take refuge in the illusion that "the nation's great national nightmare" is over and relax believing that the promised land of solutions to war, health care, social security, corporate corruption, a mythical land of peace and justice and the American way is only a couple years of hard Democratic work away. That is a pipe dream. 2) Under Bush, much severe damage has been done here at home and abroad. I don't need to enumerate the list here. But remember this, the U.S. populace is largely a non-player except in its role of confused electoral legitimizers of the global brute military power wielded by the US two party ruling class consensus regardless of which faction is in power. It is the people of the rest of the world who are every day less confused, from the millions marching in Europe (albeit unsuccessfully) against US war in Iraq and Afghanistan to the peoples of Latin America one after another successfully electing governments of the left, most overtly opposed to US imperialism. 3) I will not be shamed, brow-beaten, guilt-tripped or rhetorically manipulated into casting my vote before ruling class swine. I will once again vote for the alternative candidate of my choice. I invite each of you to do the same and bring as many others with you. The electoral field is not THE battlefield but it is a battlefield. Fight upon that battlefield and win on it. If not this year and if not in 2012 and if not in 2016 and if not in .... Don't give your vote to those who will then use the "legitimacy" of the system you voted for to carry out further dismantling of the social net at home and further imperial adventures abroad. 4) May courageous people around the world continue to show the people of the United States how to fight ruthless powers, how to act with courage in the face of illegitimate governance, and how to establish solidarity with other peoples. May they help us understand that nothing is obtained from the powerful and ruling class that is not obtained through hard work, sacrifice, and clarity. 5) Which every ruling class representative -- McCain or Obama -- is elected, get ready to continue fighting the system and the dead weight millions who still believe, in their never ending lack of analysis and lack of courage, that this system presents the hope of real change for the people of this country or the world. It does not.Arroyoriberahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00955940337928790469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-68732699686819866322010-08-30T22:51:19.343-07:002010-08-30T22:51:19.343-07:00Heres a good article on progressives and Obama by ...Heres a good article on progressives and Obama by nation contributer Gary Younge.http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/17/barack-obama-one-year-on<br /><br />He talks about the difference between the Obama campaign and an actual movement.mulligashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14559702751405399870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6679900905356691531.post-85798450968587629362010-08-30T19:44:21.683-07:002010-08-30T19:44:21.683-07:00What radical solutions should we risk?What radical solutions should we risk?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10605490855967809549noreply@blogger.com